Seventy% - Topic: Chocolate testing for chefs?

Hayley on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Mon, 28 Mar 2005 10:58:01 +0000

Can anyone give me info on other good quality chocolate that is reasonable in price, say in the Callebaut to Valrhona price range. I have noticved the prices of Amedei and Domori are very steep.

Hayley on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Mon, 28 Mar 2005 08:39:51 +0000

In New Zealand the most widely used chocolate is Calibaut and Valrhona(and other brands: Patis france, DGF etc). We only have the grand crus and Eqitoriale available at the moment. I have recently tried their pralines and almond pastes and they are to die for. Does Cluzeil pack chocolate for wholesale? Any feed back on the domain chocolate that Callibaut has released? I went to a Callibaut demo recently and was intro'd to some products. I have been using Valrhona mostly. We have had more Cluziel come into NZ recently, which has been great. aparrantly Amedei is on the way.

chocolatero on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Sun, 13 Mar 2005 14:22:37 +0000

From supplying UK restaurants, most of them use callebaut or valrhona
the first for price reason, the second because it is widely available
and "seen" as top quality and heavily marketed
the truth is that most chefs and pastry chefs know very little about chocolate and will buy what they hear is good.. thus the success of varhona. amedei etc tend to be far too expensive.
there are better and reasoably priced alternatives but chefs don't have much time and reach for the easy and safe options. very few understand the concept of origin, genotype etc
but that is the UK where the knowledge of ingredients in general is still very poor. that's why my partner who was originally a pastry chef decided to leave and re train in chocolate only.
that's also why we do not employ restaurant pastry chefs in our production because they are overpaid and know very little about chocolate and about food production.
to give you an idea of price, per kg callebaut might be at gbp 2-4 per kg, valrhona 6-9 and amedei 12-17.
As for the varhona discussion, we only use their gran crus and tropilia. Most of their other blends are very overprice for what they are.
Chocolatero

Sebastian on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:01:53 +0000

I'd recommend evaluating a variety of powders, and selecting the one you find most appropriate. In addition to those you mentioned, you may want to try blommer, adm, gerkens, and ocg. I'd suggest a moderately alkalized powder, but that's just my personal preference, in a 10/12 fat level.

chillinmango on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Sun, 13 Mar 2005 09:23:52 +0000

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I was hoping to get some helpful information about different cocoa powders. I have been reading all about the Valrhona monopoly and I'm interested because I just obtained samples from them and am really excited because I really thought I was getting something out of this world. I'm not an expert when it comes to chocolate and I want to know whether when it come to baked brownies whether I am wasting my money with Valrhona and other expensive brands. I am also getting some Barry Callebaut samples too as well as Guittard. Could you reccomend a cocoa powder that would give great rich flavour for brownies? Really appreciate if. Thanks.

alex_h on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Fri, 25 Jun 2004 09:34:53 +0000

well, let's hope for more then! :-)

Hayley on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Fri, 25 Jun 2004 02:30:38 +0000

Nice one! I must be the only NZer on this forum.

legodude on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:03:32 +0000

Me too would like to hear from people all over the world. Maybe if the chocolate producers payed the growers a little bit more, they could afford a computer, send their kids to school, buy a bar of chocolate. Then we could chat with our brothers and sisters of the world, and not only the "western countries".

Now, who saw that one coming?

Lone Ly on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Thu, 17 Jun 2004 03:49:04 +0000

Hayley, I'm not against Valrhona as such and I do not dislike it. I am against Valrhona's monopoly. Norway, where I'm from, is a small country, but we have Amedei and some Cluizel available - speaking of brands that are appreciated in this forum. To me it seems like some sort of laziness that Valrhona is the only high quality couverture used if taking one step up from Callebaut. (Legodude was kind enough to inform me that Callebaut probably is the one most common.) I am only an amateur myself, so you might find my opinion unqualified. My point is that there are other brands that are good too. As not all Valrhona bars are suitable for all purposes, I think some of the bars from let's say Amedei and Domori have their mission too. A chocolate mousse based on Valrhona's Guanaja is simply different from one based on Amedei's Chuao. Personally I like to keep things simple, and I often find that Amedei speaks for itself so to say. It has a richness of flavours (also when tempered) that I really enjoy. When using Valrhona I feel I need to add some liqueur to get the dessert interesting enough. On the other hand, sometimes I find a bar of baking chocolate from the supermarket good enough. It depends ... I have not tried Callebaut, except from simply eating the London Chocolate Week 2003 Rococco bar which Martin told me was produced by them.

As for the nationalities of the forum members, there is certainly a European dominance, so I'd love to see all corners of the world covered - and by that I don't mean the Western world only.

Hayley on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 02:24:48 +0000

Lonely - I'm just curious as to why you are against Valrhona. Have you used it much at all in pastry work. I'm a devoted fan and I can not get my head around your dislike for it! Of coarse, we do have our own taste's, I'm just curious. I think their product is far superior to alot of other chocolate makers and believe that it is not all hype that goes behind it. As for Callebaut, it is OK. Depending of coarse, I have used it quite alot in the past, and found it to be fine, and still of better quality than alot of other covertures. I'm not too comfortable naming companies when I'm saying something bad. I'm new to this Forum thing so a little unsure. It looks like most people here are from the UK. I'd be quessing that there is alot more of a variety in chocolate over there! And I would be in heaven to be at a chocolate show! we don't have them in New Zealand.

choca on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:08:34 +0000

i must whole heartedly agree with you lonely . the hype for Valrhona is often overdone , and while the cheese conglomerate behind them has done a good job at promotion and made some good chocolate , there is a lot of guff spoken .
Callebaut ( owned by Mr . Jacobs ) have the monopoly at the industrial level and produce some good chocolates , as well as bad . They supply most of the trade in the U.K. They are becoming much more cynical though , so lonely could have a go at them too !!!
If you ask your Callebaut rep for details of their whole range you might find a more interesting chocolate , they might import it specially for you . in the U.K. there is only a limited range available to the trade compared to France .

Hayley on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:42:59 +0000

Absolutely!! Have you tried the Aragauni from Valrhona. I will be able to try it in a couple of months. It sounds interesting. Not yet released in New Zealand. I am looking forward to trying it!!

Hans-Peter Rot on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Tue, 08 Jun 2004 16:05:35 +0000

You're right about the cocoa content. Just because a chocolate's cocoa content is higher doesn't mean that it's better. Flavor is the key, and if the flavor is off, then it doesn't matter how much sugar you add to it. All you do is change the sweetness, not the flavor. I've had several 80% chocolates that don't enjoy nearly as much as some 70%s or even some 60%s. It's all about balance.

Hayley on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:28:28 +0000

Great to see such a response! Being in a small country, such as New Zealand, which is so far away from Europe, our choice in chocolate is slightly limited. We do still have a good selection of commercial brands ie; Callebaut, Patis France, Barry Callebaut, DGF, Dobla etc. From my own experince as a chef, I have found that Valrhona is far superior! I think that there is a bit of confusion when people rate chocolate on the cocoa mass percentage. More does not always mean better. The comparision of flavours which you get from the Valrhona Chocolate is quite intriqing and can play a very important part in a dish. The Manjari is my favourite! I also find that if you were to do a blind tasting of a mousse made with Valrhona and a mousse made with a more commercially made chocolate, you can notice the difference. I, myself can tell the difference between the Valrhona Grand Cru chocolate in a blind tasting. I must admit I am a bit of a fan.
There are still alot of chocolates that I am yet to try!![:D]

Hans-Peter Rot on Chocolate testing for chefs?

Sat, 05 Jun 2004 21:30:01 +0000

I suppose it depends on where the chefs are located. In America, for example, Guittard and Scharffen Berger are quite popular, not only for eating but for cooking as well. Guittard's line of couveture is rather extensive and has many applications, just like Valrhona. Callebaut, I believe, is the good old stand by that's not only cheap, but has a good and versatile flavor.