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Coppeneur
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aguynamedrobert
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January 11, 2007 - 2:50 am
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Hello Everyone,
I just was introduced to a new German Chocolate Maker, Coppeneur. I am having samples sent to me and info sent on the company but wanted to get opinions from some of you guys over in Europe. They just introduced their chocolate to North America in November so it is new to me. Any opinions of their bars and company would be much appreciated...

http://www.coppeneur.de/

Robert
http://www.chocolateguild.com

Robert

Some Chocolate Guy http://www.chocolateguild.com
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marioh
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January 11, 2007 - 11:55 am
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When it comes to me I do not need any of their products.
I haven’t tasted the filled bars (obviously they copied the idea from Zotter) as I do not like filled bars (and they aren’t topic of this forum, aren’t they?).
From the origin bars I have tasted the Java and the Sambirano. Moreover I had the chance to tasted a variety of bars (especially bars with added something) on the ISM in Cologne. The Java was a big disappointment. A friend of mine tasted the bar as well and he was even more disappointed. I couldn’t find any characteristic flavour. Just chocolate, that’s it. But the price is therefore much too high. The Sambirano was quite ok. Very fruity and tartish. Just as you expect a Sambirano to be. But again I would say that you can get the same quality for less money. I thought about tasting the Ocumare but until now I haven’t done and I believe that I will not purchase any bars in the near future.
Apart from that I have heard some stories about Coppeneur. The quintessence of these stories seems to be that they are very arrogant and snobby. I will not give any details, but if it is true what I heard from quite a lot of people this is another perfect reason not to buy any of their products. But sometimes it seems to be necessary to be like that to survive on the market [xx(]

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marioh
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January 11, 2007 - 12:04 pm
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Just forgot to mention: I tasted the roasted cacao beans. They are really the worst ones I have ever tasted. They can not be compared with the fantastic ones from Quai Sud (which are cheaper).
Just to be precise: With Sambirano I mean the Menavava.

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Alex Rast
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January 11, 2007 - 4:13 pm
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quote:


Originally posted by aguynamedrobert

Hello Everyone,
I just was introduced to a new German Chocolate Maker, Coppeneur. I am having samples sent to me and info sent on the company but wanted to get opinions from some of you guys over in Europe. They just introduced their chocolate to North America in November so it is new to me. Any opinions of their bars and company would be much appreciated...


I've found them to be maddeningly inconsistent. Some chocolates (e.g. Tsachila) are very good, others (e.g. Ocumare) very poor indeed. As another poster mentioned the Sambirano is good although there are others that are better. Coppeneur has a very characteristic nutty style to its flavour profile, Sometimes that works, sometimes it's a disaster. In spite of these inconsistencies I think they are a worthwhile inclusion to the world of chocolate because their style is so very different from anyone else's. That being said, I wouldn't put them in the same category as, e.g. Cluizel or Amedei.

Alex Rast
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Alex Rast Alex_Rast_Alternate@hushmail.com
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aguynamedrobert
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January 11, 2007 - 8:14 pm
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That you for all your input...I will have to let you guys know what I think once I get some samples...Thanks again...

Robert
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Some Chocolate Guy http://www.chocolateguild.com
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Polarbear
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January 18, 2007 - 3:24 pm
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But I daresay that Coppeneur makes the best forastero bar I have ever tasted, the Hacienda Lara. It is one of those occasions when a forastero really tastes something characteristic, without the harshness of cheaper forasteros.

***
My name is Polarbear and I am a chocoholic...

*** My name is Polarbear and I am a chocoholic...
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aguynamedrobert
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January 18, 2007 - 8:12 pm
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Where do they grow that Forastero? and is it a pure forastero or just mostly forastero? What is the percentage cacao?

Have a good one,
Robert
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Polarbear
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January 19, 2007 - 7:25 am
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quote:


Originally posted by aguynamedrobert

Where do they grow that Forastero? and is it a pure forastero or just mostly forastero? What is the percentage cacao?



It is from Equador, if I don't remember wrong, a single estate. So it is not a blend, but whether the beans from this farm are 100% forastero, i don't know.

***
My name is Polarbear and I am a chocoholic...

*** My name is Polarbear and I am a chocoholic...
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marioh
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January 19, 2007 - 11:04 am
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The homepage (http://www.coppeneur.de/marke.html , sadly only in German) tells us that it is 100% Arriba (a Nacional cacao). Whether we can believe it or not I do not know. The Hacienda is in the province Los Rios.

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aguynamedrobert
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January 19, 2007 - 8:16 pm
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Would we have a reason to think that it isn't Arriba? Is the taste off or did you get any info? Or just a hunch?

Robert
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Alex Rast
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January 19, 2007 - 10:39 pm
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quote:


Originally posted by Polarbear

quote:

Originally posted by aguynamedrobert

Where do they grow that Forastero? and is it a pure forastero or just mostly forastero? What is the percentage cacao?



It is from Equador, if I don't remember wrong, a single estate. So it is not a blend, but whether the beans from this farm are 100% forastero, i don't know.

***
My name is Polarbear and I am a chocoholic...


This quickly becomes a question of semantics. For the Ecuador Arriba bean, I've seen it called everything from Forastero to Trinitario to Criollo. Since cacao varietal designations like that are supposed to refer to genetics, and since genetics are inherently mixed, and since Forasteros and Criollos can interbreed (or we would not have the Trinitario) it's as arbitrary as the definition of race is for a human. Is someone white or black? That's a subjective decision.

If we take for the minute that the Arriba is a Forastero - which seems to be the consensus opinion - and if we take for a minute that Coppeneur's bar is 100% Arriba, then it's at least possible that the bar is 100% Forastero - such that that term means anything at all.

Among Forasteros, however, Arriba has pride of place and there are a great many high-quality Ecuador chocolates. I give the nod to Slitti's Tropicale among those I've tried.

Great bars made from Forasteros of other origins are less common. Pralus' Bresil is really quite good. So is Theo's Ivory Coast. The very best all-Forastero I've had, of any type, is Bonnat's Cote D'Ivoire. However, unlike Theo's which is Fair Trade, Bonnat's comes with no sourcing guarantees and this raises the spectre of slave labour. It might be the best by a slight margin but it's perhaps best avoided anyway.

Alex Rast
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marioh
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January 26, 2007 - 9:51 am
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Originally I didn’t intend to buy any Coppeneur bars but I decided to give the Ocumare a chance (as it is an Ocumare).
It’s sad, but I have to say that it was really a mispurchase. This bar is really bad. In comparison their Java bar is great (but only in comparison!). That was really the last purchase of Coppeneur bars.
Moreover I had the chance to taste some of their pralines. They produced pralines before they started their chocolate bar business. The pralines are quite good, much better quality than the bars. Of course there are better ones, but, as it comes to me, worth their price (although I had not to pay for them). 100gr are at 4.80€, the same as Neuhaus. And again, compared to Neuhaus they are better.

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Alex Rast
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January 26, 2007 - 5:48 pm
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quote:


Originally posted by marioh

Originally I didn’t intend to buy any Coppeneur bars but I decided to give the Ocumare a chance (as it is an Ocumare).
It’s sad, but I have to say that it was really a mispurchase. This bar is really bad. ...


Wrong choice but don't give up on them just yet. Hacienda Iara is pretty good, and the milk chocolate version of it is actually among the very top milk chocolates available. As I said before, Tsachila is pretty good too. But like you I made the mistake of trying the Ocumare first (assuming that as the "highest prestige" bean it would make a good test, but unfortunately this is a disastrous interpretation of the bean. I would still rate the company as worthy of tasting - you just have to be aware that while some bars are good, others aren't, and there's no correlation between the reputed quality of the bean and the quality of the bar in this company's case. Coppeneur should probably ditch the Ocumare IMHO, or withdraw and reformulate it, because I suspect a lot of people, like us, are trying it as the first bar, getting a bad taste in their mouth, and never trying another chocolate from them.

Alex Rast
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marioh
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January 26, 2007 - 7:55 pm
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Alex, I believe you get me wrong. As I wrote before I tasted more than one bar from Coppeneur. I didn’t like them very much, even though they aren’t that bad. I just wanted to taste another bar to give Coppeneur another chance to convince me of their capability.

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Alex Rast
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January 27, 2007 - 9:31 pm
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quote:


Originally posted by marioh

Alex, I believe you get me wrong. As I wrote before I tasted more than one bar from Coppeneur...


Always a good idea to review one's past posts [:I]

Yeah, I wasn't remembering the entire context of the thread.

Still, Coppeneur does have some winners if you're willing to persevere. Definitely their best ones seem to be the ones you didn't manage to have an opportunity to try. That, I suppose, is the risk of inconsistency. I get the feeling Coppeneur's quality appears inconsistent because they try too hard to impose their style upon the bean. With some beans it works, with others it falls flat.

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deb
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April 25, 2007 - 2:22 pm
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Robert,
what did you think of Coppeneur?

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aguynamedrobert
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April 25, 2007 - 11:22 pm
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I just got the samples actually 2 weeks ago...they were ok but I was not a huge fan of the overall flavor of their bars...I thought the bars were more acidic than any of them needed to be...I wouldn't buy them to munch on...but some might like them.

Robert
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cioccolato
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April 26, 2007 - 12:25 am
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There seems to be some discussion here regarding Forastero vs Arriba. And may be a good topic for another discussion. Although I am not claiming this as my opinion, DesAlpes recently wrote a chocolate methodology course for professional chefs and was authored by Chef Anil Rohira who was winner of the "Best Sugar Showpiece" at the Coupe du Monde World Pastry Cup Competition in 2003. I will qoute from his book, "While there are many varieties of cacao beans-3,000 different varieties of plants and trees have been identified-they are categorized into 4 main varieties of Theobroma cacao: Criollo, Forastero, Trinitario, and Arriba/Nacional." Some chocolatiers are now taking the position that as we learn more about the cacao bean, our knowledge should allow us to to expand and accept new varieties.
He describes the Arriba as follows: Full, smooth cocoa flavor with additional floral, nutty notes. The pod and tree as Large green, wrinkled pods, beans are large and purple. When this was discussed in the class, he provided the scientific study and data to back this up, but you have to contact him, for more information.

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aguynamedrobert
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April 26, 2007 - 1:28 am
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There are many debates on what the Main categories of cacao are...when researching this very topic I looked into the Cocoa Research Unit and gene bank at the University of the West Indies in Trinidad and Tobago...They have four types labeled...

Criollo
Trinitario
Forastero
Refractario

Last I checked they categorized Arriba as a Forastero...I found the Refractario confusing though...

This is definitely a subject with not enough information from professionals(myself not being one in this subject). I hope that some people working in the Gene banks and clerify somethings soon...

Have a good one,
Robert
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aguynamedrobert
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April 26, 2007 - 1:33 am
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