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Silliness and Self-Exaltation
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pablo_xocalatl
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April 20, 2007 - 9:34 pm
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i like the idea of seventypercent.com, sharing ideas and information about great chocolate, but i've got to say, a majority of posters here are by and large enamored with themselves and the lingo that they learned watching the food network. you people cannot be satisfied with anything, there seems to be very little real appreciation for chocolate here. a lot of what i'm reading is people who have very little-to-no actual chocolate experience (i.e. manufacturing, selling, importing) they are merely inexperienced individuals who think that they are "supertasters". i would love it if people like claudio corallo, steve devries, john scharffenberger or auguste pralus or chloe doutre-roussel would comment in these forums because their ACTUAL knowledge of chocolate would put you to shame. before you go tearing apart someone with years of experience in the field because when you opened up your chocolate bar your saw bubbles, try growing some cacao and making your own chocolate bars. heck, you can even be lazy about it and buy some cacao beans and make chocolate. it is NOT easy. chocolate production is quite possibly one of the hardest food related endavors.

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Martin Christy
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April 20, 2007 - 10:59 pm
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Not sure where you're coming from pablo or what your agenda is, but some of the people you mention ARE actually members here and have only ever made positive comments about the forum.

If you think posters are ignorant or misguided and you want to change that, better contribute in a positive way than just moan - I really don't know what that achieves.

With so much 'imitation' fine chocolate around, we need debate, discussion and an attempt to understand what is good and what is bad in chocolate. Consumers need this, not just 'experts'. We've all made mistakes along our chocolate journey, we are all learning.

Still, thanks for your contribution - I am sure it will generate some debate!

P.S. - what 'food network' are you referring to?

Martin Christy
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http://www.seventypercent.com

Martin Christy Editor www.seventypercent.com
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pablo_xocalatl
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April 20, 2007 - 11:03 pm
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quote:


Originally posted by martinc

Not sure where you're coming from pablo or what your agenda is, but some of the people you mention ARE actually members here and have only ever made positive comments about the forum.

If you think posters are ignorant or misguided and you want to change that, better contribute in a positive way than just moan - I really don't know what that achieves.

With so much 'imitation' fine chocolate around, we need debate, discussion and an attempt to understand what is good and what is bad in chocolate. Consumers need this, not just 'experts'. We've all made mistakes along our chocolate journey, we are all learning.

Still, thanks for your contribution - I am sure it will generate some debate!

Martin Christy
Editor
http://www.seventypercent.com


martin, the only agenda that i have is to promote thoughtful chocolate conversations, not just a bunch of people kvetching about air bubbles on the back of a chocolate bar or not having enough "snap" for their preference. real evaluation and debate is my goal. yes, i do moan in my own way, but at least it is intended to cause thought amongst the posters of seventypercent.com and not just to tear people down.

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Hans-Peter Rot
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April 20, 2007 - 11:09 pm
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Interesting observation, pablo, but I'd recommend that the next time you decide to make a post that you do so with a little more caution and consideration for the people that participate here. You have absolutely no idea about the experience that anyone on here has, so it would be wise to question and debate first rather than insult and deride.

But anyway, if you can contribute anything else in a calm and reasonable manner, then please feel free to do so. We'd love to hear what you have to say, because after all, we all love to learn about chocolate.

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Hans-Peter Rot
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April 20, 2007 - 11:16 pm
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Pablo, we observe the bubbling and make note of it. Why not? Does the company get points taken off? Maybe half a point, but come on, this is only to give credit to those who can pull off a marvelous appearance. I don't understand why you're so strung up on this bubbling issue.

And the snap? Which reviews mention this, and how frequently does it appear? Honestly, pablo....

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pablo_xocalatl
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April 20, 2007 - 11:59 pm
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why are YOU so strung up on bubbling?
does it deter from the flavor of the chocolate??

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pablo_xocalatl
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April 21, 2007 - 12:11 am
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i'm not trying to be a big meanie, goin' around pickin' on the seventy-percenters, i'm just saying that FINE chocolate should be looked at with more consideration to the flavor of the chocolate and less about the bubbles or marks where the bar was poured or the packaging that it was contained in. and for martin, "food network" is an american reference which is obviously lost across the pond, there is a television network called The Food Network and it seems to be home to people who like to use flowery speech and cute catch phrases.
i'm not trying to "insult and deride" and i've used a great deal of caution and consideration, which is why i used phrases like "a lot" or "most" as to not be generalizing EVERYONE on seventypercent. people here (and in the world in general) need to take themselves just a little less seriously and besides, how fun would a debate be if everyone participating was just parroting the same keywords as the previous poster. i'm what they call a "keen mixer"

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Eshra
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April 21, 2007 - 12:26 am
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Pablo,

Regarding the appearance of chocolate, we don't take it too seriously here either 😉 After all, if you would refer to our review guide, you would note that the weighting for 'look' is only 5/100. It really is not a big deal.

What I often find, however, is that in the case of an extremely poorly finished bar, one could infer that poor, hasty moulding might signify other things. Then again, it might not. If a chocolate manufacturer doesn't care about how their chocolate looks, what does that say about the larger issues of how the bar might taste?

But most of the time, it is a mere quibble and doesn't impact ratings to a large degree.

So?

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Hans-Peter Rot
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April 21, 2007 - 12:26 am
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Entertaining post once again, pablo. It's clear you failed to read the reviews in their entirety. Do you see in any of the reviews that a bar was trashed and totally rejected on the basis of appearance alone? I don't. Try reading beyond the first paragraph of a review and consider the passage in its full context, not in your limited fashion. This is really becoming quite frivolous.

As inferred by Eshra, appearance is only but a minor fraction of the total score a bar receives. There are several reviews that say something to the extent of: "Despite the appearance, the aroma is phenomenal..." then the flavor is described as glorious and superb. Again, did you read the reviews? I get the impression you didn't [:o)]

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pablo_xocalatl
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April 21, 2007 - 12:40 am
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the only reason that i might not read a review in its entireity is that i'm not fond of the dollar romance novel style of writing that is often typical of many (not all) reviews. i've read reviews where the entire post was commentary about he appearance of a chocolate, granted, i don't spend all day, every day on the site, so i can't come back and start quoting specifics.

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Eshra
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April 21, 2007 - 12:44 am
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Pablo,

Perhaps if you could cite something specific, instead of making broad generalizations, we could better address your point.

Nonetheless, refrain from insulting people. "dollar romance novels" is just asking for a fight.

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Hans-Peter Rot
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April 21, 2007 - 1:10 am
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If you're not willing to read a review in its entirety, then your point is moot and invalid. The reason why some of the reviews are written the way they are is to add variation and to avoid the basic cookie-cutter approach that's usually employed. Not that there's anything wrong with that but sometimes it gets difficult to express just how wonderful a certain aroma or flavor is using the same method of explanation over and over again. It's supposed to be engaging and light-hearted and at the same time informative and serious. And to top that off, there's even a personal exposé of personal likes and dislikes that offer explanations for the score the chocolate received.

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pablo_xocalatl
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April 21, 2007 - 1:18 am
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wow... where's the light-heartedness there??? seems to me, again, this is obviously only my viewpoint, that perhaps my words hit a little close to home. referring to some writing as being reminiscent of "dollar romance novels" isn't asking for a fight nor does my unwillingness to read such flowery and needlessly verbose posts does not, repeat, does not make my points moot and invalid any more than dollar store romance novel writing styles make someone else's point moot and invalid, it just makes for obnoxious reading. not once have i stated that someone's opinion was invalid. i have stated, however, that i felt that peoples opinions of the chocolate relied to heavily on the appearance. so... take a bit of your own advice and lighten up.

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Hans-Peter Rot
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April 21, 2007 - 1:39 am
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Plain and simple, pablo, everything that needs to be said has been said. It is what it is. If you don't like it and feel the need to complain, please change your tone of voice. You've been asked politely.

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Eshra
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April 21, 2007 - 1:39 am
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Specific examples, Pablo......................?

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aguynamedrobert
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April 21, 2007 - 1:49 am
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Well as I might want to jump into debate I will stay out for the moment. I was wandering...Paul...where do you work and what type of experience do you have in chocolate?

Robert
http://www.chocolateguild.com

Some Chocolate Guy http://www.chocolateguild.com
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cioccolato
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April 21, 2007 - 2:04 am
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Oh Paoblo, lighten up. We are talking about chocolate. Not a war. Chocolate is a romance, like fine wine. And deserves discussion and enjoyment. Be sweet like chocolate, but not so sweet that we miss the point. We are just trying to share our passion for one of the finest foods of the Gods. Maybe, you got confussed and picked the wrong forum. Anger management is a different forum on a different site. Now back to the joy of chocolate and the wonderful discussions it can evoke.

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Hans-Peter Rot
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April 21, 2007 - 2:42 am
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quote:


Originally posted by cioccolato

Oh Paoblo, lighten up. We are talking about chocolate. Not a war. Chocolate is a romance, like fine wine. And deserves discussion and enjoyment. Be sweet like chocolate, but not so sweet that we miss the point. We are just trying to share our passion for one of the finest foods of the Gods. Maybe, you got confussed and picked the wrong forum. Anger management is a different forum on a different site. Now back to the joy of chocolate and the wonderful discussions it can evoke.


Probably the most intelligent comment made so far....

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ChemicalMachine
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April 21, 2007 - 3:52 am
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quote:


Originally posted by pablo_xocalatl

the only reason that i might not read a review in its entireity is that i'm not fond of the dollar romance novel style of writing that is often typical of many (not all) reviews. i've read reviews where the entire post was commentary about he appearance of a chocolate, granted, i don't spend all day, every day on the site, so i can't come back and start quoting specifics.


I enjoy reading the reviews, althought occasionally I have to look up things in wikipedia to understand the metaphors. For example, I had to look up "Stygian current" and "Charon's barque" before I could fully understand the Pralus Papouasie review.
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deb
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April 21, 2007 - 8:02 am
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Paul the Barista..stick to coffee. Well said Cioccolato.

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