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Silliness and Self-Exaltation
April 21, 2007
9:12 am
confiseur
Switzerland
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quote:


Originally posted by deb

Paul the Barista..stick to coffee. Well said Cioccolato.


…are insults really neccassary here? ….and yes,sometimes the reviews are perhaps a little flowery but no less entertaining for that…
Pablo..its only somebodys opinion, they are not carved in stone..

April 21, 2007
9:12 am
Masur
Stockholm, Sweden
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Well said Cioccolato.

“Porcelana: The Holy Grail of Pure Criollos” (Maricel E. Presilla)

"Porcelana: The Holy Grail of Pure Criollos" (Maricel E. Presilla)
April 21, 2007
1:18 pm
oz_choc
Kandos, Australia
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pablo_xocalatl wrote: i’m what they call a “keen mixer”

My understanding is that the term “keen mixer” means trouble maker. The more common term for an online trouble maker is “troll”. And the accepted way of dealing with trolls is to refrain from feeding them the outrage and indignation that they apparently crave.

But seeing as we’re on the subject of flowery language in seventypercent reviews, I’d like to nominate my all time personal favourite.

In his review of Amedei Madagascar, Alex Rast wrote this:

“Madagascar is truly a beautiful young virgin bride in her wedding dress.”

When I first read this description, my mind boggled … what on earth does a virgin bride taste like? Is this a chocolate that only heterosexual men can fully appreciate??

I could argue that this kind of metaphor is sexist, exclusive, and, indeed, rather silly.

But it’s also memorable. And funny (although whether I’m laughing at the review, or with it, depends on the reviewer’s intention, which isn’t entirely clear to me. Did Alex write this review with a straight face? Or was his choice of metaphor a playful parody of the purple prose that peppers people’s reviews? After all, I suspect that a reviewer can only write “This chocolate tastes like chocolate” a limited number of times before his audience gets thoroughly bored and starts wishing for the good old days of abundant metaphors, similes, and comparisons).

In any case, I think the existence of such poetic licence really proves that absolutely anyone with an imagination and some chutzpah can play the reviewing game, which is great … although I do wonder why the vast majority of reviews on seventypercent are written by men. Perhaps the average woman just doesn’t see the attraction of having a virgin bride melting in her mouth?

Sam

April 21, 2007
6:03 pm
pablo_xocalatl
USA
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boy, all i do is share a little opinion of my own that happens to be in contradiction to what a few people think and i get lambbasted for it. and while you’re tearing me a new one for sharing my opinions you make a fuss about your own views and your rights to have and express them. a bit odd, wouldn’t you say?

April 21, 2007
6:29 pm
Hans-Peter Rot
USA
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Sam, you’re correct on several fronts. As I mentioned earlier, there are but a limited number of ways to describe a profile, and after a while it gets downright boring to not only read them but to write them as well. Like literature, which relies on parodies, comparisons, comedy, and several other allusions to convey a message, opinion, or description, reviews follow the same format in order to accomplish the same task. If all the reviews resemble each other if not for a few different descriptors, then what’s the point? We might as well omit the review section and open up the forum to lengthy discussion instead. But if members don’t agree with a particular review, or even how it’s written, there is the option of discussing it on the forum afterward, which has been done scarcely in the past. Several of Lindt’s bars have been subjected to this, not because of flowery prose but rather high marks.

The reluctance of someone’s desire to read a detailed review of a chocolate is no one’s fault (or problem) but the reader’s. Laziness–and this is not directed to you–is not an atypical trait of humankind in this modern age, so it does not surprise me if a few people get fed up when they see more than a few sentences in a review. You can’t please all the people all the time, right?

There are two female reviewers on board, but their contributions are sparse, comprising perhaps a total of 20 or so reviews. Maybe Martin has plans to bring on board another female? That would be great because it would be refreshing and enlightening to have a frequent participant whose opinions differ than my own and Alex’s.

April 21, 2007
6:29 pm
pablo_xocalatl
USA
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quote:


Originally posted by aguynamedrobert

Well as I might want to jump into debate I will stay out for the moment. I was wandering…Paul…where do you work and what type of experience do you have in chocolate?

Robert
http://www.chocolateguild.com


robert, i’m not going to disclose the place of my employment out of respect for my employer as my views and opinions do not necessarily reflect theirs and i would not want to have negativity put their way because of what i say. i have been involved in the chocolate trade for roughly six years in purchasing, sales and manufacturing of exceptionally high quality chocolate. i’m well versed in truffle making and the fine art of caramel and i work with the finest quality chocolates, and i’m a daily eater of said fine chocolate. and i must say robert, thus far, you’re seemingly one of the more reasonable individuals.

April 21, 2007
6:31 pm
Hans-Peter Rot
USA
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quote:


Originally posted by pablo_xocalatl

boy, all i do is share a little opinion of my own that happens to be in contradiction to what a few people think and i get lambbasted for it. and while you’re tearing me a new one for sharing my opinions you make a fuss about your own views and your rights to have and express them. a bit odd, wouldn’t you say?


Drop the charade, pablo. It’s not *what* you said but *how* you said it.

April 21, 2007
7:45 pm
Eshra
Southgate, USA
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Pablo, if you do not like the reviews, why not write some of your own? We have a nice members’ review section in the forums that would be a perfect place for you to address chocolate in whatever way you wish. I have myself written many reviews in the members’ review section.

Other than that, let’s all drop this entire line of conversation. This “debate” isn’t leading anywhere productive and I do not see the value in it, as I see it becoming a a flurry of disguised insults.

Write some member reviews.

April 21, 2007
8:56 pm
Scott--DFW
Dallas, USA
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October 26, 2006
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Paul,

You’re wise to try to preserve your anonymity so your embarrassing display here won’t come back and bite your employer in the butt. Not so wise to link to a MySpace page that identifies yourself and your employer by name.

According to your MySpace page that you linked to in your profile, you currently work at Sahagun Chocolates in Portland, Oregon, but have only been there since September of last year. Before that, you worked one month at Delphina’s Bakery. For a short stretch, you worked at Moonstruck. The rest of your experience seems to have been in retail, such as The Gap, The UPS Store, Restoration Hardware, and Williams-Sonoma. Seems to me that, if that’s accurate, you have about a year’s worth of experience in chocolate shops–not six.

Like you, though, I don’t want your bone-headed trolling on a board frequented by a number of people of considerable standing (e.g., chocolatiers, chocolate makers, opinion-makers in online and print media, etc.) to reflect negatively on Sahagun Chocolates. First, because Sahagun is one of the finest shops in the United States–not because of your contributions, whatever they may be, but because of the genius and painstaking care taken by Elizabeth Montes in every piece she makes. Second, because Elizabeth Montes, in my few brushes with her over the years, has always been exceptionally gracious, sweet, and unassuming. My guess is that she would be mortified, if she saw how you were behaving in such a public forum.

Scott

April 21, 2007
9:12 pm
Alex Rast
Manchester, United Kingdom
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October 13, 2009
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quote:


Originally posted by oz_choc

But seeing as we’re on the subject of flowery language in seventypercent reviews, I’d like to nominate my all time personal favourite.

In his review of Amedei Madagascar, Alex Rast wrote this:

“Madagascar is truly a beautiful young virgin bride in her wedding dress.”

When I first read this description, my mind boggled … what on earth does a virgin bride taste like? Is this a chocolate that only heterosexual men can fully appreciate??


ROTFL! [:D] Never thought of it in exactly *those* terms but the image you put in my mind is comical to say the least.

Alex Rast
Alex_Rast_Alternate@hushmail.com

Alex Rast Alex_Rast_Alternate@hushmail.com
April 21, 2007
10:00 pm
pablo_xocalatl
USA
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quote:


Originally posted by Scott–DFW

Paul,

You’re wise to try to preserve your anonymity so your embarrassing display here won’t come back and bite your employer in the butt. Not so wise to link to a MySpace page that identifies yourself and your employer by name.

According to your MySpace page that you linked to in your profile, you currently work at Sahagun Chocolates in Portland, Oregon, but have only been there since September of last year. Before that, you worked one month at Delphina’s Bakery. For a short stretch, you worked at Moonstruck. The rest of your experience seems to have been in retail, such as The Gap, The UPS Store, Restoration Hardware, and Williams-Sonoma. Seems to me that, if that’s accurate, you have about a year’s worth of experience in chocolate shops–not six.

Like you, though, I don’t want your bone-headed trolling on a board frequented by a number of people of considerable standing (e.g., chocolatiers, chocolate makers, opinion-makers in online and print media, etc.) to reflect negatively on Sahagun Chocolates. First, because Sahagun is one of the finest shops in the United States–not because of your contributions, whatever they may be, but because of the genius and painstaking care taken by Elizabeth Montes in every piece she makes. Second, because Elizabeth Montes, in my few brushes with her over the years, has always been exceptionally gracious, sweet, and unassuming. My guess is that she would be mortified, if she saw how you were behaving in such a public forum.

Scott


i do in fact, have six years of chocolate experience because while i was working other places i was heavily involved in my own personal chocolate works, and you are correct elizabeth is an amazing, gracious individual. i really feel that what i’ve been saying here is being taken entirely too far by people on this site.

April 22, 2007
12:44 am
Hans-Peter Rot
USA
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August 1, 2006
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quote:


Originally posted by pablo_xocalatl
i do in fact, have six years of chocolate experience because while i was working other places i was heavily involved in my own personal chocolate works, and you are correct elizabeth is an amazing, gracious individual. i really feel that what i’ve been saying here is being taken entirely too far by people on this site.


So if you stand behind your convictions and believe it is we who have blown everything out of proportion, then I’m sure you wouldn’t mind if Elizabeth happened upon this thread….

April 23, 2007
6:01 pm
pablo_xocalatl
USA
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quote:


Originally posted by Montegrano

quote:


Originally posted by pablo_xocalatl
i do in fact, have six years of chocolate experience because while i was working other places i was heavily involved in my own personal chocolate works, and you are correct elizabeth is an amazing, gracious individual. i really feel that what i’ve been saying here is being taken entirely too far by people on this site.


So if you stand behind your convictions and believe it is we who have blown everything out of proportion, then I’m sure you wouldn’t mind if Elizabeth happened upon this thread….


if you’re saying that you are wanting to email it to her, be my guest. i know elizabeth, and i’m completely certain that she would not be upset with me at all.
i was not speaking rudely with anyone, i was not attacking any one person, i was commenting on a style/pattern that i’d noticed and it just happened that my opinion was in contrast to that of a select few members of seventypercent.com . the response i received from the members has been exceedingly rude and they ganged up to do it. all i was saying was that i preferred straightforward, frank conversation about chocolate and not just this oneupmanship and excessive melodrama.

April 23, 2007
11:48 pm
Hans-Peter Rot
USA
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I have no intention of E-mailing her. What would that accomplish?

And regarding your intentions: the reactions you’ve elicited have been relatively the same by several people of the forum. No one is ganging up on you. They’re just responding independently at a certain behavior that seems out of place, and quite frankly, rude. You’ve been asked politely to keep your tone down and to support your argument, and not only did you fail to comply with either request, but you steadfastly refused. How can anyone honestly consider your points after this sort of behavior?

So let me bring this to your attention: Your first post was on the Chocolatiers forum in a Claudio Corallo thread.

http://www.seventypercent.com/…..hichpage=4

There, you vehemently insulted a member simply because he did not like Corallo’s chocolate. Eshra asked for the appropriate moderator to mediate the situation because your post was very harsh. So, of course, I edited your post and asked you to, “please keep your words kind.” So here’s my point:

People should be able to freely post their opinions of any kind of chocolate in the world without the fear of people like you bashing them. We don’t want to discourage anyone from any kind of chocolate–we just want the opportunity to introduce people to higher quality chocolate and help them along the way if need be. But when diminutive language is aimed towards someone, then the atmosphere quickly becomes unfriendly and downright hostile. No one here has insulted anyone for their likes and dislikes, nor does anyone here have a holier-than-thou attitude. I’m sorry if you have the impression that everyone here is a snob but that simply is not the case. We’re all simple people with similar interests, though we sometimes differ in tastes but are no more different in character for that.

P.S. And to clarify, I don’t watch Food Network. In fact, I don’t own a television.

April 23, 2007
11:58 pm
gap
Melbourne, Australia
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October 20, 2005
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Pablo, your comments (and anyone else’s) are welcome.

Its more about how you expressed them and the language you used. While you did not mention any individuals, you did make references/inferences about the contributors here at SeventyPercent.

Personally, I appreciate the effort a lot of contributors make for this site and the information they provide for us. They do it because they enjoy chocolate and want to share with others. I read the reviews for those chocolates it is possible for me to purchase in Australia – I don’t always agree but often I do (it’s no different to reading a movie review). Even if I don’t agree with the conclusion of the review, there tends to be information for me to take away from it.

If you know you don’t agree with someone else’s review, you always have the choice not to read it, to do your own review or to post constructive comments about the review.

April 24, 2007
12:29 am
Eshra
Southgate, USA
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Pablo,

Just because one uses flowery language to describe a chocolate, doesn’t mean they are a snob. I think we can all agree that the path from the cacao pod to a fine chocolate bar is a journey that requires the participation of many individuals with various talents. Indeed, the transformation into a great chocolate bar is a form of art in itself and deserves much respect.

I am not going to say a chocolate simply tastes good or bad, as this would be a disservice to the many fine chocolatiers who pour their hearts and souls into their craft. Instead, I am going to put my taste buds into overdrive, as I attempt to address the some 300 naturally occuring chemicals present in chocolate.

I think that’s what most of us do here on seventypercent.com.

Sean

May 20, 2007
10:37 am
antonm
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‘ No one here has insulted anyone for their likes and dislikes, nor does anyone here have a holier-than-thou attitude. I’m sorry if you have the impression that everyone here is a snob but that simply is not the case. We’re all simple people with similar interests, though we sometimes differ in tastes but are no more different in character for that.’

Not sure everyone who remembers the infamous ‘Slattery’ review would agree.