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Chloe Doutre-Roussel's book?
February 9, 2006
9:41 pm
seneca
USA
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Has anybody had a chance to get/read her new book?
http://us.penguingroup.com/nf/…..kDisplay/0,,0_1585424889,00.html

Just curious…

http://bittersweetcafe.blogspot.com http://www.bittersweetcafe.com
June 5, 2006
9:48 pm
Eshra
Southgate, USA
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February 14, 2006
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Just read this book and it was a very good read for someone looking to ‘get into’ fine chocolate. The books provides some general ways of telling good and bad chocolate apart, but doesn’t go into enough depth on specific bars.

The book is also kinda general when it comes to genetics of fine cocoa. With the exception of Porcelana, no other Criollo or Trinitario pedigrees are mentioned.

Chloe also dismisses basically any chocolates made from forestero beans (to her this variety is always bad) + even good fermentation = bad chocolate.

Also, she said that good chocolate had to be conched for a few days to be good. However, (if I am not mistaken that is) Domori conches little…and she goes on to contradict herself, offering nothing but praise for Domori — I don’t get it.

I really thought she could have gone into more depth on a lot of things. Anyone else?

June 5, 2006
11:21 pm
Alan
Columbia, MO, USA
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This post is being made after looking back through the book and noting a few things:

Are we sure for how long Domori conches? I know that on a recent thread that I started I compiled that information, which I read on seventypercent.com, but that particular list of how different companies process their chocolate could be mistaken on a variety of levels. In Chloe’s book she does say that the best chocolate should be conched for at least three days. However, she also says that Domori conches for a long time. So she is not contradicting herself; she is relatively clear about that point. She could be wrong about Domori I suppose.

What is the fact? Does Domori conch for a long time or not? I don’t know, and I don’t know how we would find out for sure, but I’ll bet that Chloe has visited Domori, and if she notes that they conche for a long time, then I would tend to believe it. Does anyone else really know otherwise (I’m really asking here)? I’d be interested to know.

Also, when Chloe says Forastero, she is setting it apart from Criollo-heavy hybrids (which most people refer to as criollo) and less-criollo-heavy hybrids (which she, and many others, call trinitario-type). When she uses the word forastero she is meaning to signify any cacao that has no criollo lineage at all. Looking at is this way, I can understand why she says that no forastero cacao makes great chocolate. And that statement is very different than saying that chocolate can’t be made from forastero which is pleasant enough to eat. But pleasant and excellent are two different things in my book. However, I know that some people don’t agree with this way of looking at cacao. So perhaps there is just a difference of taste here.

Those are my thoughts at least. Personally I very much like the book, despite the fact that it is often focused on people who aren’t already connoisseurs. I think, actually, that her goal in this book is to get new people hooked on good chocolate, and I find the goal admirable. Her true love of chocolate shines through from beginning to end.

Of course more depth is always good, but her intended audience (which I don’t think is us for the most part) might have gotten lost with too much detail.

[url="http://www.Patric-Chocolate.com"]Patric Chocolate[/url]
June 5, 2006
11:50 pm
ellie
london, United Kingdom
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I’ve got the same impression, Alan. She even used to sell a clever package of the book and 4 chocolate bars by different producers at Fortnum & Maison. 3 good Madagascar ones and one anonymus big manufacturer’s, as I recall. Very helpful and educational, and sold well, I’m glad to say – people were very much interested.

July 4, 2006
6:03 pm
jh901
Carnegie, USA
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July 4, 2006
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I recently read the book also simply as an introduction to “real” chocolate. I found it quite perfect for a beginner.

Anyhow, are there any “must read” books on chocolate for someone interested the finer details?

July 5, 2006
10:08 am
t.fadrus
Austria
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June 10, 2006
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There is of course the very recommendable book by Maricel E. Presilla: [url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1580081436/sr=8-1/qid=1152093026/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-4031484-3901618?ie=UTF8"]“The New Taste of Chocolate”[/url]. It goes into much more detail than “The Chocolate Connoisseur”, especially concerning cacao varieties and plantation practices. It pictures and describes all kinds of diffrent cacao pods (the fruit of the cacao tree) and all the genetical types and where they might have originated from.
However the part about tasting chocolate is only about 10 pages long.

www.schokologie.com << visit my blog
July 11, 2006
1:15 am
Martin Christy
London, United Kingdom
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Alan, are you sure Chloe is saying Domori conch a long time? As far as I know it is 12 hours, their whole ethos is ‘low impact’, to do as little as possible to the beans into make chocolate. (I have this from Gianluca directly). I am discussing this with Chloe, but I think we are in agreement. Possibly she didn’t know this at the time of writing, so it is worth checking the book again.

Anyway, Domori has bits in it! How can it be conched for long?

There’s another whole side note here about plasticity. The Universal machines are a little brutal. The spread of particle size is rather broad, hence gritty bits in a very fine mix – arguably too small and too large a particle size, giving the wax/cream texture that people seem to love or hate. There’s a similarity with Pralus, who use the same machine, but I think also conch more afterwards.

Martin Christy
Editor
http://www.seventypercent.com

Martin Christy Editor www.seventypercent.com
July 11, 2006
2:44 am
Alan
Columbia, MO, USA
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quote:


Originally posted by martinc

Alan, are you sure Chloe is saying Domori conch a long time? As far as I know it is 12 hours, their whole ethos is ‘low impact’, to do as little as possible to the beans into make chocolate. (I have this from Gianluca directly). I am discussing this with Chloe, but I think we are in agreement. Possibly she didn’t know this at the time of writing, so it is worth checking the book again.

Anyway, Domori has bits in it! How can it be conched for long?

There’s another whole side note here about plasticity. The Universal machines are a little brutal. The spread of particle size is rather broad, hence gritty bits in a very fine mix – arguably too small and too large a particle size, giving the wax/cream texture that people seem to love or hate. There’s a similarity with Pralus, who use the same machine, but I think also conch more afterwards.

Martin Christy
Editor
http://www.seventypercent.com


Dear Martin,

I’m glad you brought up the issue of machine type because that does help to explain how it actually is possible to have larger particle sizes in a “well-refined” or “well-conched” chocolate, since as you mentioned, the randomness of the refining/conching process of media mills is notorious for that large particle size spectrum. And of course, “well-conched” is a relative term too since some manufacturers claim that their machines can, in a short period of time, bring about the same or similar results as 72 hours in a longitudinal through the use of various techniques including forced oxygenation and vacuum methods among others. Also, in some set-ups there is a pre-refining “dry” conching of the thick liquor/sugar paste that could allow for longer conching without dramatic particle size reduction. One example: http://www.chocoeasy.com/the_p…..ndex.shtml
There are so many different ways of organizing mixing, refining and conching, that it would indeed be interesting to know what set-up Domori actually uses, especially since they claim to have invented some type of new machine specifically for their processes. I don’t know what machine that is though, and if it has anything to do with refining or conching.

That said, I don’t doubt that Domori has a short conche time if that is what you’ve heard from Gianluca himself. However, there is at least one line in Chloe’s book where she does include Domori in the “long-conche” category, I believe even mentioning “three days.” Unfortunately I’ve loaned out my copy of the book to a local chef and don’t have a backup. But, since I’ve been meaning to order a few copies to share…I just have and should have them on Thursday. I’ll post the exact page number of the particular line from the book. Unless I am horribly mistaken–which could always be the case–and she really didn’t make this statement at all, I would imagine that it could easily be an editorial mistake that was simply missed in this edition.

Anyway, I’ll post the page number soon. But, again, I’m not doubting you if you say that they definitely have a short conche time.

Alan

[url="http://www.Patric-Chocolate.com"]Patric Chocolate[/url]
July 11, 2006
8:21 pm
Masur
Stockholm, Sweden
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I have the book. It’s page 68:

quote:


…when a big company prides itself on conching for just five hours instead of the two to three days applied by Amedei, Valrhona, Domori, Pralus, Scharfeen Berger and others.


“Porcelana: The Holy Grail of Pure Criollos” (Maricel E. Presilla)

"Porcelana: The Holy Grail of Pure Criollos" (Maricel E. Presilla)
July 11, 2006
10:43 pm
Alan
Columbia, MO, USA
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10

quote:


Originally posted by masur

I have the book. It’s page 68:

quote:


…when a big company prides itself on conching for just five hours instead of the two to three days applied by Amedei, Valrhona, Domori, Pralus, Scharfeen Berger and others.


“Porcelana: The Holy Grail of Pure Criollos” (Maricel E. Presilla)


Masur,

Thanks. That’s the line. Could easily have been an editorial oversight I suppose.

Alan

[url="http://www.Patric-Chocolate.com"]Patric Chocolate[/url]