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Choaxa
April 15, 2005
9:31 pm
marioh
Bonn, Germany
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I can’t believe it’s true. Someone takes the chocolate made by someone else, melt it up and pour it in forms and sell it under his own name. Under these circumstances I will not buy any other Choaxa bar.
Alex, if you like the Cuba, just think about the original couverture pack from Barry Callebaut. I bought a Cuba package a few months ago. 1kg for about 14€. That’s really much cheaper than buying a Choaxa Cuba. I’m really a bit shocked.
By the way, masur, Venchi does not produce their chocolates themselves as well?

April 15, 2005
10:38 pm
Masur
Stockholm, Sweden
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Venchi is not producing their own chocolate from bean to bar.

“Porcelana: The Holy Grail of Pure Criollos” (Maricel E. Presilla)

"Porcelana: The Holy Grail of Pure Criollos" (Maricel E. Presilla)
April 16, 2005
12:06 am
Hans-Peter Rot
USA
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Marioh, you have to understand that producing chocolate from bean to bar is an extremely expensive and labor intensive endeavor, one that cannot be accomplished by every company. The practice of using another brand’s couverture, i.e. reformulating and re-molding it, is common industry practice. Even such prominent brands as La Maison du Chocolate use other couverture (in this case, Valrhona) not only for their enrobing or coating, but also for their bars. As I mentioned above, most brands will use couverture (such as Cacao Barry, Valrhona, etc.) but will have it reformulated it according to their specifications, so the end product will actually be a different chocolate from the original. So the Cuba bar you taste from Choaxa might taste different than the Cuba couverture supplied by Cacao Barry. Consequently, the finished chocolate will be somewhat “different” and will sometimes bear a new monkiker to reflect these changes and that particular company.

April 16, 2005
12:13 am
Martin Christy
London, United Kingdom
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La Maison du Chocolat is wholly owned by Valrhona, so you could say that they use their own couverture :D .

Martin Christy
Editor
http://www.seventypercent.com

Martin Christy Editor www.seventypercent.com
April 16, 2005
10:26 am
marioh
Bonn, Germany
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Ok, ok. I know that many companies buy couverture from others to make their products. But I always thought that might be no high-class producers like Venchi. I appreciate their bars (especially the 75%) very much.
From La Maison du Chocolat I have heard earlier. You can even see on photos on their homepage that they use Valrhona (just looked again to give a link here, but they have chanced the homepage design. Can’t find the photos anymore)
Now that I’m thinking about it… . I have heard about Amedei in their beginnings that they wanted to have Valrhona couverture (“Tessieri had already met with the export manager at the French company, attempting to strike a deal for purchasing wholesale some of Valrhona’s high quality chocolate to process at Amedei. Unfortunately, after being kept waiting at length in the Lyon offices, his request was denied because in the French chocolatier’s opinion, the Italian market was not sophisticated enough to appreciate such a fine quality of dark chocolate.” from an article about the Chuao from Amedei, http://www.amedei.it/en/gamber….._rosso.htm ).
Probably I have just repressed this possibility of “chocolate producers”.
I can imagine what you say Montegrano but I’m still just a little shocked that companies sell other companies products (even so they might be a little different) for their own. I just feel that I have never really thought about that possibility. Perhaps I just didn’t what to think about. But of course you are right. You are confronted with indications for such co-operation (or, perhaps better, collaboration). I remember that I heard (and couldn’t believe at first) that there are only three cacao-roster in Germany.
But I fell that I have to accept these thinks. Even so I find it really hard. But perhaps I should now just buy bars from which I know that they are produced buy the company written on the package.
Finally I just want to make a summary: For a company that is at first a producer of pralines, truffles etc I didn’t find it astonishing that they use couverture from other companies. But if you produce bars and claim it your own and use others couverture….

April 16, 2005
4:53 pm
Hans-Peter Rot
USA
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Well, if you’re already using another’s couverture for your chocolate pieces (pralines, bon bons, etc.), and considering what has been discussed already, then using that same couverture for your own bars makes more sense. Often, many chocolatiers will blend many types of couvertures together to produce an entirely different chocolate altogether, so in some instances, the end product is not simply re-formulated couverture.

In some regards, you have to perceive the matter as you would any other business. Being a chocolatier depends on your skills and mastery of what you do with the product and not necessarily on your ability to produce it from its origin. World famous chefs don’t raise their own meat or vegetables, but rather they buy it from suppliers. It’s what they do to the meat and vegetables that reflects their skills as a chef. Same with chocolatiers. They might buy their couverture from other suppliers, but it’s what they do to the chocolate itself (and the other ingredients, of course) that’s unique and what really speaks of their skill and innovation. It just so happens that producing from bean to bar is one of those areas of specialization that only a handful of masterful chocolatiers excel in. And that really sets them apart from the others.

April 16, 2005
10:14 pm
marioh
Bonn, Germany
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It’s very convincing what you have written. I just feel I have no chance but being your opinion. But for all that I think you can only get real unique chocolate (always seen apart from pralines, truffles etc, just pure chocolate bars) by producing and processing it all yourself (but finally that’s quite the last of your points you listed up, isn’t it?).

April 18, 2005
10:40 am
alex_h
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monte, u meant l’artisan du chocolat, right?

April 18, 2005
4:39 pm
Hans-Peter Rot
USA
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Alex, when? If this is in regards to La Maison, then no. La Maison and Valrhona have very strong family ties. And if this in regards to Choaxa, again no. I suspect they source from Cacao Barry/Callebaut.

April 18, 2005
7:26 pm
alex_h
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oh, ok. i thought u meant artisan when u said maison.