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cocoa butter
December 28, 2006
3:33 am
gap
Melbourne, Australia
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He's in Melbourne now, but lived in Yron (I think thats the spelling) - a kibbutz near the northern border.

Max Brenner shops are also big over here in Melb. I went to buy some of their pralines a while ago and was told they had been sold out for two months and were waiting on more from Israel!!!!

December 28, 2006
5:37 pm
Alex Rast
Manchester, United Kingdom
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quote:


Originally posted by aguynamedrobert

The Deoorderized Cocoa butter is used for its melting properties but WILL NOT add to aroma and taste of the white chocolate. ...
Then there is white chocolate and white compound or coating...white chocolate has cocoa butter while compounds/coatings have vegetable fats(cheaper and they set at a certain temperature so no tempering is needed).

If you want go try some great white chocolate you MUST try El Rey's White Chocolate.


Important point: El Rey's white chocolate uses non-deodorised cocoa butter - and this is why it is considered fairly uniformly to be the best in the world. So yes, Ilana, you are absolutely right that in white chocolate using deodorised cocoa butter you are tasting the milk and the vanilla. There are thus 3 stratifications of white chocolate: 1. Non-deodorised cocoa butter white chocolate (generally thought of as the best - Icoa is the most prominent and possibly only common example)
2. Deodorised cocoa butter white chocolate (the standard - most "quality" white chocolate is in this category)
3. "White chocolate" made using all or part other vegetable fats (usually palm kernel oil) (the "cheap stuff")

From this I think you can see that for quality white chocolate El Rey is an almost automatic choice.

Alex Rast
Alex_Rast_Alternate@hushmail.com

Alex Rast Alex_Rast_Alternate@hushmail.com
December 28, 2006
8:38 pm
aguynamedrobert
California, USA
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I must agree...No ones white chocolate can compete with El Rey's and Alex made a very good example by saying that they are a non-deodorized white chocolate...great example...try El Rey's white chocolate anytime you get a chance, that goes for everyone. You won't be let down...

Robert
http://www.chocolateguild.com

Some Chocolate Guy http://www.chocolateguild.com
December 29, 2006
10:31 am
Ilana
Israel
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Thanks!
Someone on our local forum here claims that since the deodorized cocoa butter does not affect the taste, then the cheaper vegetable - fats - version is just as good since all you are tasting is milk and vanilla anyway. This just does not seem right. How can it be explained? Is it the texture?
Ilana
Happy New Years!

Ilana Bar-Hai www.ganache.co.il
December 29, 2006
10:21 pm
aguynamedrobert
California, USA
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vegetable fats are going to set at a specific temperature(usually they are hydroginated, meaning they arn't completely natural). Cocoa butter is unique because it melts just below body temperature...giving you a perfect melt on the tounge...
Vegetable fats will not have the same melting effect(might be close to melting temperature). What this means is it does not feel the same on the tounge. I usually find that the vegetable fats coat the tongue more...
Either way there definitely is a difference...Cocoa butter wins

Robert
http://www.chocolateguild.com

Some Chocolate Guy http://www.chocolateguild.com
December 30, 2006
1:17 am
Alex Rast
Manchester, United Kingdom
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quote:


Originally posted by Ilana

Thanks!
Someone on our local forum here claims that since the deodorized cocoa butter does not affect the taste, then the cheaper vegetable - fats - version is just as good since all you are tasting is milk and vanilla anyway. This just does not seem right. How can it be explained? Is it the texture?


Texture is definitely affected - if the fat is hydrogenated the "chocolate" will have a pasty mouthfeel while if it's unhydrogenated palm kernel or coconut oil (common choices) it will have a slimy/slippery mouthfeel.

However, in addition vegetable fats like palm kernel and coconut are typically not deodorised, and thus the end product will in the first instance taste a lot like old cardboard and in the second slightly coconutty. You'll note the truly unappealing nature of palm kernel oild down the line. Hydrogenated fats try to have a more neutral flavour but usually have a rather "dead" taste - a little like eating chalk. Undeniably in all cases you will notice a difference over the pure cocoa butter versions.

Alex Rast
Alex_Rast_Alternate@hushmail.com

Alex Rast Alex_Rast_Alternate@hushmail.com
December 30, 2006
8:24 am
Ilana
Israel
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Ohhh! Now I know how to explain it!! Thanks so very much! On a new note, Does anyone know if vanillin contains gluten? I noticed that my milk chocolate from Callebaut uses vanillin. I was surprised. I wonder why they do not use the real vanilla...
OKAY! Thanks!
Ilana

Ilana Bar-Hai www.ganache.co.il
December 30, 2006
11:48 am
Sebastian
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you'd have to ask your supplier, but likely not. sometimes flavors are plated on carriers - i've seen some that are corn gluten, but not wheat gluten. I'm assuming you're asking for allergenic purposes, or out of concern for celiac sprue?

December 30, 2006
7:37 pm
aguynamedrobert
California, USA
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I learned a while back that the main source for making Artificial Vanillin is from paper making by-products...Wood to be more clear...lol...weird huh...just a little side note...

Robert
http://www.chocolateguild.com

Some Chocolate Guy http://www.chocolateguild.com
December 30, 2006
7:39 pm
Alex Rast
Manchester, United Kingdom
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quote:


Originally posted by Ilana

Ohhh! Now I know how to explain it!! Thanks so very much! On a new note, Does anyone know if vanillin contains gluten? I noticed that my milk chocolate from Callebaut uses vanillin. I was surprised. I wonder why they do not use the real vanilla...
OKAY! Thanks!
Ilana


I've never heard of vanillin containing gluten. I don't think it would no matter what. Callebaut is a large, industrial supplier and they have formulations that use vanilla as well as ones that use vanillin. You just have to order the right formulation - they have hundreds. They use both varieties because some of their customers want one and others prefer the other - they try to cater to every market.

Alex Rast
Alex_Rast_Alternate@hushmail.com

Alex Rast Alex_Rast_Alternate@hushmail.com
December 31, 2006
1:49 am
Sebastian
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Robert - although vanillin CAN be made from wood, it almost never is. If you see something labelled 'natural vanillin' that's likely where it's from, but again, the chances that you'll encounter that is somewhere between nil and nada...although it is out there...

Most vanillin in chemically synthesized ethyl vanillin, and is made from mixing chemical A with chemical B such that the end result chemically identical to the compound that comprises 90% of natural vanilla...

It will almost always be in a dry form, and sometimes is plated on a carrier substrate. Many times the substrate used is a maltodextrin or a sugar, but sometimes they can also contain grain based products - most of them are corn based, and as such will have corn gluten present, which, generally speaking, isn't of significant concern for the allergen conscious. I've only ever seen one that had wheat gluten in it, and that product no longer is being manufactured, to the best of my knowledge.

December 31, 2006
3:50 pm
Ilana
Israel
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Absolutely fascinating!! I do haveacallebaut milk choc with vanillin and I don't like the taste. Kind of something there that bothers my palate but hard to say what. The little pieces are like from tiny little cup cake moulds. I must find another type, with vanilla. Any suggestions? It must be either Callebaut or Fruibel, as that iswhat I can get. Unfortunately.

Ilana Bar-Hai www.ganache.co.il
December 31, 2006
5:42 pm
Sebastian
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Taste is SO personal - best advice is simply keep tasting until you find what you like. It could be the vanillin, the level of the vanillin, the liquor, the milk, how it was processed, how it was stored, etc etc etc. Lots of mfrs have lots of very good chocolates - the good news is that the tasting test method never really gets old 8-)

January 1, 2007
2:41 am
ellie
london, United Kingdom
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Quote
Originally posted by Sebastian
" the tasting test method never really gets old"

Love it! Going to put it on my mood board in front of me, great start to the New Year!

cocoa butter | Page 2 | Ingredients | Forum