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Martin Christy
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December 19, 2004 - 10:52 pm
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Just found this feature on BBC site http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/hea.....756997.stm

Martin Christy
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Martin Christy Editor www.seventypercent.com
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alex_h
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December 20, 2004 - 9:31 am
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so there are chocolates that are low in flavinoids as well. i was wondering about that when i read that domori's san jose is low in these - or something to that effect.

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Sebastian
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December 20, 2004 - 12:57 pm
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http://www.nutraingredients.co.....al-just-as

here's another. lots of press regarding this topic for the last year or so. keep in mind that not all chocolates are created equal, and generally speaking, the darker the roast, the presence of alkalization, and the lower the cocoa solids (not cocoa fat - talking only physical solids here) will result in lower flavonoid content.

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Lone Ly
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December 21, 2004 - 9:08 am
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Sebastian, do you know why darker roast will result in lower flavonoid content (as one of several factors)? Or, are there any explanations for this that even I can understand?

"Man cannot live by chocolate alone - but woman can." (Unknown)

"Man cannot live by chocolate alone - but woman can." (Unknown)
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Sebastian
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December 21, 2004 - 12:39 pm
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Flavanoids, by definition, are highly reactive. There are two things that increase the speed with which they chemically combine with something else, generally speaking; heat and water. Since roasting always involves the former, and in many cases the latter, you dramatically increase the rate at which these components interact with one another, with proteins, and with oxygen in the air (nobody's roasting in a vacuum). Once they react with something, they're no longer flavonoids, and usually not beneficial as antioxidants any longer. There are also enzymes, polyphenol oxidases, that are liberated starting from the very harvest - these continue to break down polyphenols, and again do it faster under heated conditions - up to a certain point, (at which they're inactivated).

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Hans-Peter Rot
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February 24, 2005 - 1:47 am
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Since Criollos and Trinitarios are roasted and fermented for a shorter time than Forasteros, and IF flavanoids exist in relatively the same amounts in all three bean types, then I would imagine that the former two are actually healthier due to their comparatively less processing.

Teas contain varying amounts of antioxidants as well, and since white teas are the least processed of them all, they contain more antioxidants. Maybe a correlation....

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Sebastian
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February 24, 2005 - 12:35 pm
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They definately are not present in at the same levels in differing genotypes, and even if you've got the same genotype in different geographical areas, the levels are going to be different. It gets very complicated very quickly 😎

However, and this is true for all forms, the less you ferment, roast, or dutch the nibs, the more flavanoids you're going to retain.

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Hans-Peter Rot
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February 24, 2005 - 4:38 pm
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Okay, so I was only partly correct. I had a feeling that flavonoid content would vary on genotypic basis. I suppose that it is axiomatic to assume this anyway, especially since nothing in life is as simple as it appears to be. But, in the natural state, before processing, which type (Criollo, Trinitario, Forastero) generally, on average, has the higher flavonoid content?

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Sebastian
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February 24, 2005 - 5:13 pm
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Dunno that I have the answer for that one. I've not seen anything substantive to suggest a pattern one way or t'other..

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alex_h
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March 23, 2005 - 9:41 am
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ellie
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March 23, 2005 - 6:02 pm
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Ah, Alex, it looks like an article for Sebastian. Check that one - keenlab.ucdavis.edu/articles/ZhuJAgFdChem03.pdf - looks like eating chocolate + vitC enhance effect of flavonoids. And definetely it's cool to add some cocoa nibs or bean to ur favorite dates, cos it will slow down insulin rush form sweet carbs.

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Sebastian
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March 23, 2005 - 11:19 pm
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here's another bit of light reading recently published 😎

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/conten.....l/81/3/611

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ellie
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March 24, 2005 - 12:31 am
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Thanx, it's exactly what one needs to know. The only thing that still bags me is comparative study of different companies dark chocolates in terms of the list harsh handling and manufacture,- so flavonoids are preserved. Guess it's sensetive study and nobody in the know is interested. Sebastian, my e-mail is available.
Chocolate gets better and better. It's really spring now, gettig warm and i'm not looking forward to hot days when chocolate is not so appealing.

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Hans-Peter Rot
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March 24, 2005 - 5:53 am
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Chocolate is always appealing regardless of weather [:D]

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alex_h
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March 24, 2005 - 10:21 am
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sebastian, is that the same study as the one in my link?

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Sebastian
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March 25, 2005 - 2:37 am
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Alex - nope, it's different. However, upon trying to open it tonight, i'm being redirected to a login page. I'll try again later to see if it's a fluke, and if not, will try to hunt down the original link where i'd found it and get the full text available..

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Hans-Peter Rot
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March 25, 2005 - 3:30 am
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I tried to view the document last night, but I was redirected to a log on page. Is it viewable through university networks?

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ellie
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March 25, 2005 - 12:00 pm
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Click on the Abstract free on the right, and u'll get it, even short and sweet version. Othervise i thought Sebastian's a member.

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Sebastian
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March 25, 2005 - 12:11 pm
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May well be a member via work, i'd have to check on that. I do know that when i originally visited it (from work) i didn't have to mess with the logins..

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Hans-Peter Rot
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March 25, 2005 - 4:35 pm
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I don't like abstracts. Sure, they're nice when you want to get the gist of an article without reading the entire thing, but in this case entirety is preferred. Since you were at work, your system is probably set up so that you don't need to log in. I know that at the university I don't have to do this either whenever I serarch for articles.

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