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Hot Chocolate made like Espresso?
April 11, 2004
3:45 am
theobroma
MIlwaukee, USA
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Hi folks
this should probably go under the 'hot chocolate' thread, but I made a new one so it would get some attention...
Does anyone know about making hot chocolate like espresso is made?
I mean, using good roasted beans, very finely ground, and steamed under pressure (or however it works).
I ask because it would be nice to figure out a way to make hot chocolate without alkalizing and without those pesky solids floating around... Sugar could be added to taste, of course.
Please let me know if you've tried or heard!
thanks
Kyle

Oh no! My Agustus!

Oh no! My Agustus!
May 14, 2004
3:19 pm
alex_h
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interesting idea, theo!
have it patented! :-) maybe lonely knows more. she's the expert when it comes to hot chocolate/cocoa it seems.

May 18, 2004
5:06 pm
Lone Ly
Oslo, Norway
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Me know nothing ;-) It sounded a bit too technical/too much of chemistry to me, but nevertheless interesting. I don't even know where to get chocolate beans. Even if I had access them at hand I would probably still be quite sceptic. I have heard it's possible to make hot chocolate without milk (ie. with water), but that doesn't attract me. If I'm making a guess I think it is not a good idea since chocolate should generally be handled gently no matter where in the process. Why not asking one of the chocolatiers, for example Amedei?

"Man cannot live by chocolate alone - but woman can." (Unknown)
June 9, 2004
10:58 pm
Lone Ly
Oslo, Norway
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If you're still around, theobroma, may be you'll find this web page interesting:

http://borumat.de/heisse-schok.....bohnen.php

It's in German and describes how to make hot chocolate starting with your own beans. May be it will work to add the unpeeled, crushed (in a mortar) beans to your espresso machine. (I guess someone here can help you out with translation if necessary.)

"Man cannot live by chocolate alone - but woman can." (Unknown)
June 10, 2004
4:53 pm
choca
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March 3, 2004
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hi theo ,
I might be able to help you with the beans .

January 19, 2005
10:08 pm
tworthen
San Diego, California, USA
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January 19, 2005
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help with translation can be found at Google.com.
1. do a search using some unique words from the site to be translated. I used 'Kakaobohnen' and found the site Lone Ly mentioned at the bottom of the first page of search results. Click on 'translate this page'. The translation was understandable but wouldn't pass any grammatical tests.

Tom Worthen
San diego, CA

Tom Worthen San diego, CA
January 19, 2005
11:10 pm
Sebastian
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it's been tried. Kraft has a patent on it. There are significant issues with filter clogging.

January 20, 2005
8:33 am
alex_h
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has anyone tried this and knows how the taste is? i think i might experiment with some kashaya.

January 20, 2005
4:34 pm
Hans-Peter Rot
USA
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Cacao prepared like espresso wouldn't work, imo, because cacao beans are, after all, the seed of a fruit, and being as such, are quite fatty (almost 50% fat). Grinding a cacao bean real finely would release too many of its oils and would gum up any machine you're usiing.

January 20, 2005
5:26 pm
Sebastian
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There are ways to do it, but it's tough, and most folks don't have the necessary means. You can try using a coffee grinder with a little bit of dry ice to keep the frictional heat from melting the fat and making a mess (i've not tried this, but in theory...). However, as you try to brew it, you're going to find that you've got a whole 'nother set of issues that pop up...

January 21, 2005
1:50 am
Hans-Peter Rot
USA
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Well, cacao doesn't blend easily with water to begin with, nor with milk. It's the whole fat-not-wanting-to-mix-with-liquid deal coming into play. This is the problem first experienced with Daniel Peter and the likes when they were trying to invent milk chocolate. Condensed milk, having half of its moisture removed, and milk powder, with all of its moisture removed, proved to be rather successful products to incorporate into cacao. Perhaps you could try ginding nibs in small pieces and then steeping them as you would with tea. CocoaTea is what you could call it, and you could even try adding some other herbs and leaves to complement the nibs.

January 21, 2005
9:43 am
alex_h
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i'll probably stick to the tea i can buy ready made, which is not bad.

July 5, 2005
5:24 pm
seneca
USA
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We've played with that idea a bit, and clogging is indeed an issue, as is a really really fine grind. Because of the fattiness and relatively low melting temp. of the cacao nibs our usual espresso grinders simply dismantle the cacao, making a sticky separated mess. I've worked a bit with processing the nibs through a robot coupe instead to avoid the heat issue, but so far with little success.

The batches I have run through the espresso machine have basically turned out something like lightly flavored chocolate oil...not bad when paired w/steamed milk, actually, but not what I was after initially either...

Let us know if you find an interesting method!

http://bittersweetcafe.blogspot.com http://www.bittersweetcafe.com
July 13, 2005
6:55 pm
Paul Mc
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It strikes me that the espresso method is problematic as the main flavors of cacao are to be had from the solids. Writers from Dufour and even earlier decried the over-heating of their chocolate drinks as it caused a separation of fats & solids.

I've found in my own experiments of beverage preparation using cocoa powders and/or finely grated chocolate or added cocoa butter seem to reinforce this: beverages with higher fat content tend to reinforce less desirable flavor aspects of the solids (in the absence of vast amounts of sugar), and when they separate too much you have a rather nasty brew with floating fat - really nasty after cools, let me tell you...

Dufour advocated a method which is translated in the Coe book where the chocolate was added *after* the water (in his case) was brought to a boil and removed from the heat, agitating all the while to keep a nice foam, even to the extent of spooning off the foam and beating, spooning & beating, to serve a drink composed almost entirely of the foam.

I've tried to replicate this beverage, and I suspect that tastes have changed a great deal, and possibly also the nature of the beans since then: people were buying cacao to make *drinks*, not bars, and thus the flavors would be perceived very differently. Try it yourself: take a chocolate bar you love, then grate it finely and use Dufour's method - observe the radical change in how you perceive the flavors!

To be fair, the chocolates of Dufour's time were ground much coarser than the chocolate we have today, thus more fat would be bound up in the particle, changing the nature of the flavor delivery and of course the mouth feel. But it's an interesting exercise nonetheless.

(For added cocoa butter I've used Callebaut's Mycryo: good for "lab" type testing to ascertain the effects of higher fat levels, but problematic for a really nice beverage with good flavor).

December 15, 2005
1:02 am
eem
Portland
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December 15, 2005
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Hi,

This is my first post.....

I have brewed cocoa beans in an espresso machine. It comes out quite nicely.
I have a Rio commercial machine at my shop and a friend and me were playing around with brewing cocoa beans for a while. I ground some nibs in a sumeet spice grinder, (my friend found that they won't melt if you freeze them first) then packed them into the portafilter. They were still coarser than ground espresso so it comes out pretty fast and makes a type of chocolate water, completely emulsified, it looks quite nice and tastes pure and refreshing. I haven't done more experiments lately but I would like to try again with some Arriba beans I have.

Elizabeth

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